Hey guys,
I keep seeing this narrative about our main players being tired and playing too many minutes. I find it kind of exhausting (lol) that it's spoken about so much, so wanted to see if there was actually genuine justification for so many people discussing their minutes….
Im focussing on Rice, Zubimendi and Timber as they are the three who I constantly hear people saying are overplayed, exhausted, being run into the ground by Arteta.
So I used chat gpt to pull date from transfermkt. I didn't include world cups or euros data, but all of these players played in those tournaments also.
I thought of Bruno Fernandes and Bernardo Silva pretty quickly when trying to bring comparison's to the argument, as you do hear about how many minutes they play… but, strikingly we never seem to hear about either of them being 'knackered' or over played. There's no hidden cherry picking about me picking those two for my comparison.
What stands out is pretty straightforward:
High-level players at top clubs consistently play very high minutes.
📊 Season-by-season minutes (club + internationals, excluding Euros/WC)
2020/21
| Player | Club | Total | At this stage of the season |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | West Ham | ~3,500 | ~2,900–3,000 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~2,800 | ~2,300–2,500 |
| Timber | Ajax | ~2,700 | ~2,300–2,500 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,400 | ~3,300–3,500 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~3,800 | ~2,900–3,100 |
2021/22
| Player | Club | Total | At this stage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | West Ham | ~4,600 | ~3,300–3,500 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~3,200 | ~2,700–2,900 |
| Timber | Ajax | ~3,600–3,700 | ~3,000–3,200 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,600 | ~3,400–3,600 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~4,300 | ~3,200–3,400 |
2022/23
| Player | Club | Total | At this stage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | West Ham | ~4,200 | ~3,200–3,400 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~3,800 | ~3,000–3,100 |
| Timber | Ajax | ~3,700–3,800 | ~3,100–3,300 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,500 | ~3,400–3,600 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~4,200–4,300 | ~3,200–3,400 |
2023/24
| Player | Club | Total | At this stage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | Arsenal (joined) | ~3,900 | ~3,200–3,300 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~3,900 | ~3,100–3,200 |
| Timber | Arsenal (joined) | ~150–200 | ~150–200 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,400 | ~3,300–3,500 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~4,100–4,200 | ~3,100–3,300 |
2024/25
| Player | Club | Total | At this stage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | Arsenal | ~4,300 | ~3,200–3,400 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~4,100 | ~3,200–3,300 |
| Timber | Arsenal | ~2,400–2,700 | ~2,200–2,400 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,800 | ~3,500–3,700 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~4,400–4,600 | ~3,300–3,500 |
2025/26 (current)
| Player | Club | Total (proj.) | At this stage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Rice | Arsenal | ~4,300–4,600 | ~3,100–3,300 |
| Zubimendi | Sociedad | ~4,000–4,200 | ~3,100–3,300 |
| Timber | Arsenal | ~3,000–3,400 | ~2,400–2,700 |
| Bruno | Man United | ~4,800+ | ~3,600–3,900 |
| Bernardo | Man City | ~4,400–4,700 | ~3,300–3,600 |
What this shows
- Bruno Fernandes consistently plays the most minutes across all seasons
- Bernardo Silva is also regularly at or above the same level
- Rice and Zubimendi sit slightly below but still in a high, consistent range
- Timber only drops off due to injury, not because of typical rotation
At the current point in the season:
- Bruno is clearly ahead
- Bernardo is also ahead
- Rice and Zubimendi are very similar
- Timber is lower, but that’s expected given his injury history
I'll just mention that Rice's level does not dip from high minutes. He lifted the conference league trophy and had a massive say in west ham getting to the final that year. A year in which he played 4200 minutes.
Now, let's not ignore some important context as to the cause of this! Merino is injured and has been for ages. He was bought with the intention of being midfield rotation. Havertz was injured, and its the same thing. Havertz is back now but having to cover for the fact that Ode and Eze are now both out injured also.
Lot's of reasons why Zubi and Rice are playing more, and not much that can be done about it.
Yes Norgaard probably should have played more, but its so OBVIOUS that Arteta doesn't trust him, and he feels that Rice and Zubi can keep playing. Its obvious, and yet people bring it up every week….. as if Arteta is gonna suddenly change his mind. He's made up his mind, so stop bashing on about it. I'm annoyed too, but it is what it is.
As you can see in my tables, Rice, Zubi and Timber were all playing similar minutes or even more prior to joining Arsenal. So the Arteta overplaying them narrative must also apply to their previous managers? Its not a spike caused by Arteta.
So why is there such a huge narrative surrounding these three players' minutes?
Because when you look at:
- comparable players at other top clubs
- historical minute loads
- how successful teams operate
Anyway, to me its pretty normal for key players to play this much. I'm not saying they dont look tired, I'm just saying that its barely unheard of that players have this many minutes.
And please if you have examples of people saying Bruno is underperforming or knackered, or Bernardo, then please show me 🙂
Open to discussion.
by thejonkdon
40 Comments
We all saw it coming.
Let’s hope for the best
We’ve got to remember that the media is incentivised to create narratives for the sake of engagement and that the club has much better information about the players fitness than we ever will
Even at the start of the season, you could see that zumimendi and Rice had a similar profile, but we were saved by set pieces, but not anymore!
Our midfield was incomplete from the beginning. I thought maybe MLS could be zumimendi’s replacement as a creative type, but no, they both were run to the ground and can’t seem to have a bit of confidence anymore.
I’m tired too Robbie
Think it’s much less about the minutes these guys are playing and more the complete lack of rest from Copa Americas, Club World Cups, Nations Leagues, Euros, World Cups, expanded Champions Leagues, etc.
Our situation isn’t much different than any other club, everyone just seems to be fucking exhausted at this point including Haaland who I previously thought was a robot.
The narrative seems to be about their performance more than the actual minutes and the fact that we have decent enough subs for them that we shouldn’t have to suffer through the jaded first options. They’ve both looked very lethargic since December. But the terrible part is unlike Partey-Rice, they haven’t found the balance to cover for each other. Which means they’re both looking leggy at the same time. In December they’d both tire in the last quarter of the game, then it became 60-75min and now they’re coming out for the second half second best. If Arteta could just solve our mobility problems so that the both have 2/3 options to pass to all the time that are not CBs or WBs we’d be able to move the ball quicker and start building through the middle.
I pray I don’t see Zubimendi for the rest of the season
On one hand you back Arteta for making his mind on Norgaard like it’s a good thing, on the other hand you can’t grasp fans who made their mind on Arteta’s many inadequacies.
I get the point here but I have some notes:
– fatigue can be progressive and carry on from season to season
– Rice is mostly fine (as you mentioned)
– Timber and Zubimendi have clearly dropped levels and actively looked tired. Whatever we say about it being normal, to my eyes it is very obvious that these guys are running on fumes. Before he got injured Timber was doing some nonsense I’ve never seen from him. Clearly gassed.Â
– There’s an argument that the way we play is a factor. When you have games running on tight margins, you leave your starters in and they have to maintain physical and mental intensity until the end. If you are 3-0 up you can cruise. It makes a difference. I know our block is good but I think that takes more effort than just keeping the ball and killing the game with a 1000 passes. So to some degree the way we play, or the way our games have gone, is exhausting. Killing games means you get to chill out, make more rotational subs. Like I think Norgaard should be used more, but maybe he would be used more if we killed games more.
you can’t compare intensity of matches from 5 years ago to nowadays imo.
second thing is Arteta mad tactics and man management, at the beginning of the season I said this style is not possible to maintain through the whole season and you can clearly see it in players like Rice, Zubi, Timber that their levels dropped for few weeks if not months already
Zubi used to smile all the time, until recently. It must have been very rough for him. People tend to forget its his first season in the EPL and to play this amount of minutes is not easy.
The Merino situation has been unfortunate and really messing up our midfield rotation. Rice rested the 5th PL game vs Forest. Doesn’t start the second CL game. There was definitely a clear plan to get him more games off imo.
But that fell apart early. Ø leaves at 22’ that forest game and Merino is stuck covering for him for a period. Then gets forced into a couple week stint at ST. Now has been out for months.
Even in between all that Rice starts a game at RB. So even though we have midfield cover to give him or Zubi a break we can’t due to a crisis elsewhere.
In the end, other than missing one game injured Rice has started and played vast majority of every PL game since.
Declan Rice has played the second most minutes of all outfield players this year after Van Dijk, Saliba is third and Bruno Fernandez is forth, Gabriel M is sixth and Havertz is tenth….and that’s it for top 20 PL players.Â
Arsenal are no1 for average mins played per player per team at 2,410 mins
City are no2 at 2,285 minsÂ
Bournemouth were 14th at 1,540 minsÂ
Arsenal players have objectively played the most average mins of all teams,
If you index it (% over or under average), Arsenal players have played 40% more mins than the average, with City at 32%.Â
40% more playing time is a big tax…City have only played one or two games less and have 32% so perhaps evidence of better rotation there or less injuries.Â
It’s a legitimate claim that our players face bigger exhaustion, and have been played even more than City’s.Â
I got this data from Gemini inc all games inc international and European.Â
Style of play matters too. Fernandes and silva are not instructed to press a lot compared to these two
If a player is having a bad couple of games u can just say they’re exhausted and it kinda absolves them from responsibility
The zubimendi thing is very weird to me, our team is built on rotational positions, we barely do that anymore. The forwards need to be able to drop in deep to help progress the ball but we don’t have that in Gyokeres. He’s not a stand on the ball player like Partey( not a dig at anyone). Havertz Gyokeres don’t show for the ball enough which is why we get stuck deep. We can slowly build up with Eze or merino or Odegaard at 10 but without all of them so I hope we either go with three DMs for a bit till things can stabilize ( don’t need us to lose Eze again). A free week to rest players after city away since no midweek game
I d like to see a statistic of how many matches Silva actually played 90+mins and how often he was subbed 10-20mins before eg
Thing is the first 60-70mins of 90min aren’t the ones leading to injuries, it’s the high fatigue time close to the end that increases injuries a lot, especially hamstrings n such muscle injuries.
Arteta is known for subbing very late if at all, i don’t remember another season where i saw Rice(!) run out of steam and still 10mins+ to go.
>but its so OBVIOUS that Arteta doesn’t trust him
Crazy to spend a bunch of money on a player you don’t trust to rotate in, even in cup games or against lower half table teams. It will always go all the way back to him.
>As you can see in my tables, Rice, Zubi and Timber were all playing similar minutes or even more prior to joining Arsenal. So the Arteta overplaying them narrative must also apply to their previous managers? Its not a spike caused by Arteta.
Timber used to be a CB, Arteta converted him into a RB, and while he is amazing there, at least defensively, that means he has to work and run a lot more, this applies to Calafiori as well.
Another aspect that AI can’t tell you is how those minutes played…Bruno usually and generally plays further up the pitch than Rice/Zubimendi…He’s not a box to box CM, which is what Amorim tried to make him, and that was utterly disastrous, same with Silva…Another thing is, Silva plays a full 90 minutes ~50% of the time, I just did my own analysis of the last 32 games he played, and he saw the full 90, 14 times…I did a comparison for Rice, last 32 games as well, he saw the full 90, 16 times…If Silva got injured, City wouldn’t miss him too much, if Rice got injured, would Arsenal miss him a lot? The answer is yes.
Anyway, my point is, there’s no “narrative” or “conspiracy” about this. Just watch the games and see that these guys are overplayed and never really get vacation days unless they’re injured or in the 2nd half of the season when the games start to matter and the pressure mounts.
4,800 minutes for Bruno implies 53 games, assuming 90 minutes per game. Man U are going to have a 40-game season – what’s the difference? In general I find it hard to believe that he’ll play more minutes than Rice and Zubi who have both participated in Europe and the League/FA cups. I think there might be an issue with your data here.
it’s not the number minutes, it’s what you’re asked to do during those minutes. Just my opinion but from what i’ve seen Arsenal outfield players are asked to exert a lot more effort than other players. Bruno presses after ball losses but otherwise doesn’t do much work defensively. Not the case for arsenal players
Are we sure these stats are right? Bruno had no European competition this year, and was out of domestic cups in the first game. Am very skeptical of the claim that Bruno in just the premier league has more minutes than rice and zubi who played almost all the UCL games, FA cup games and a few carabao cup games
Good argumment you make. I dont think our dip in form is mono causal. Its fitness, tactical, individual in my opinion. I think the main person to blame is Arteta but if he had a few different players it might have worked who knows.
Another argumment is the performances have been meh at best for a while and the results now start catching up.Â
I think Arteta did so many good things but the main point against him is he did not improve 1 single attacking player.
I wonder if Artetas defensive Style demands to much and is not sustainable.
I 100% wont believe he got the maximum out of our attackers.
I dont know if the Solution is 2 new attackers or a new coach/tactical approach.Â
Whats more interesting is to see the amount of sprints and distance they have completed
Not only is Bruno’s workload nothing like Rice, Zubi or Timber’s, he has absolutely has fallen off in previous seasons and been berated by Man UTD fans. People were arguing that Bruno Fernandes should be sold to Saudi a season or two ago lol.
The way the minutes are played matters too.
City have always dominated league matches and usually put 2-3 goals early and then coast to a win.
Arsenal games are always played at narrow margins and we always end up with 11 players running hard at 90 to keep a win or draw.
It’s mentally and taxing for players, because one mistake will cost them the league. A goal down feels insurmountable for arsenal even though we are top of the table.
Need to look at distance covered and sprints per 90 too, not just total minutes
All that “analysis”. Yet did not account for intensity/play style, as if all minutes are the same. This post should’ve been just a comment, LOL.
I mean this was very obviously what was going to happen when we signed no midfielder in January.. a diabolical decision btw to not sign a winger or midfielder while our competitors boosted the 2 positions that were weak for them!
ARTETA OUT
It’s how they are asked to play, a.k.a Artetas demands, imagine how much better they’d be fitness and sharpness wise if he just asked Declan to sit and sweep, like a Caceido, Zubi to float, fill gaps and dictate play, like a Bernardo, and have eze or odegaard sitting high pulling strings, like Bruno. Imagine him not asking Timber to play 50 games in back to back seasons, post ACL, asking him to help in attack tuck in, ohh and also be sure to never be out of position on defense, he micromanages the minute detail of every player’s movement and game and asks too much. Simple as.
What’s the distances covered? Ask the slopbot
Tell ChatGPT to check its work next time.
Bruno’s only played 2,663 minutes for United this season. https://www.transfermarkt.us/bruno-fernandes/leistungsdaten/spieler/240306
Declan Rice 3,642′ https://www.transfermarkt.com/declan-rice/leistungsdaten/spieler/357662
Bernando Silva 3,208′ https://www.transfermarkt.com/bernardo-silva/leistungsdaten/spieler/241641
Let’s not even look for running stats. both distance and sprints.
And the amount of rest given to them. (Pep gave City 3 day break, etc)
Lastly, Timber got injured too, so his minutes (or lack of) should be factored into the mix.
Why isn’t noorgard seeing more minutes? Fella was a regular starter at #6 and CAPTAIN.
our playstyle makes a huge difference here, more specifically how inefficiently we play.
Constantly ignoring runs and going all the way wide everytime we’re in possession tires players out way way quicker
Im generally not in favour of PEDs, but theres got to be some kind of grey area, experimental drug we can pump into these guys for a month or two.
stats are bollocks, just in the prem alone declan and zubi have played more minutes than bruno , They’ve also played more in all the cup competitions, bruno does outdo them in international football because he doesnt get subbed out, but not enough to make up for the 20 or so cup games he hasnt played compared to our boys😂
I’m tired, Zubi…
It’s worth remembering that minutes played under Arteta are “heavy” minutes compared to other systems. Arsenal’s press is so relentless that players like Declan Rice are basically sprinting or covering gaps for the full 90, often hitting big distances just to keep the high line from being exposed.
You can’t really compare Rice’s workload to a midfielder in a team that sits back and lets the game come to them. Earlier in the season, opposition teams were struggling to get a single shot on target because Arsenal were absolutely relentless in denying them space, and that was first and foremost due to their work rate. That’s no longer quite the case, sides are getting chances now. In my mind, it’s partly because the physical demands of the system are grinding them down as the season wears on.
Getting to the latter stages of two cups hasn’t done Arsenal any favours, they would be better off losing in an early round with a team of kids. Combined with injuries to players like Merino and White, has hit certain areas of the pitch hard, leading to much less rotation in some areas than others.
Arteta is so close to having a great teams but he does need to find a way to keep key players at their absolute best for the last 10 to 15 games of the season or he will be the manager who almost achieved great thing
Full back minutes are more intense than midfielder minutes
Is there a Data on distance covered and sprints? That probably matters a lot more