This isn’t about the decision, I think it’s pretty clearly offside with Scales trailing leg. But I think this is a pretty clear indication that our var system isn’t really up to snuff from a purely technical pov.
They’ve got the decision right but the process just doesn’t seem fit for purpose. Now it might just be perspective but drawing lines through players bodies just doesn’t seem right. No problem at all with the end decision but if it wasn’t so obvious and a closer decision I’m not sure anyone would have any faith in how they present it. Surely now the initial investment has been in the books for three years it’s time to add additional cameras and capabilities to the system even if just to avoid presentational nonsense like above?
by Knowhedge
25 Comments
Not really sure how they can even judge from that camera position, and the lines are a joke.
Can you confidently say 100% that’s offside?
Is this the only angle VAR actually used for the decision? I agree it’s no a great angle to judge by with those lines but if VAR has other angles we didn’t see which are used for the line placement/decision and it’s just perspective making this look iffy then it’s no something to be too bothered about. Would be nice to see the other angles to make that clear for the viewer though of course.
If that’s the only angle used then aye it’s tinpot VAR stuff even if the decision was ultimately the right one.
looks like just an odd artefact of trying to trace a 2d line onto a 3d space
player’s leg and body are straight and the line crosses over where his foot would be, doesn’t look that bad for me
99% sure that Scales leg was offside, even without the lines being drawn.
But who let their niece and nephew loose with some crayons? That line is wild
I’ll preface by saying obviously I cannot tell if Scales is off from this photo (I think he is offside) however these images can be really confusing cause of the angles and how a one point perspective camera works, I think that player is further forward than it looks.
The zombs are outta the cup. Yass
Do you understand the concept of angles, parallel lines and the difference between the two when viewed? VAR isn’t just a ref with a ruler looking at a TV screen. It’s all calibrated.
The decision itself is irrelevant. If that’s the system they’re using for decisions of fact, then it’s a complete joke and not.fit for purpose.
They’ve drew that line based on the players left foot when the other defender is clearly about 2feet behind it. Crazy that it hasn’t been discussed more
So easy to fake when you cannot see the ball
Should be using the goal-line camera for offside decisions wherever possible – any angle behind the defensive line risks body parts being obscured
You won, get over it.
There is always going to be an element of angle so you are always going to get this. There isnt even a debate that he is onside.
As you say right decision but stuff like this is important if they want people to trust VAR and combat accusations of poor implementation. The camera angle is not at all helpful here. Who is the blue line drawn to as last man?
The live angle is more useful and shows Scales offside and a full view of the backline that is easier to analyse. For me there’s also a question about Maeda being offside at that point though it’s obscured on the angle.
https://preview.redd.it/0l8bdrf7k0og1.png?width=1550&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d12da413cce289e3901204f845df11c8f4de016
The angle they show was terrible. I just assumed they had a better angle since they came to a relatively quick decision.
From the red line, it looks the rangers lad in the middle is standing behind Scales, whether Scales left leg makes him offside is hard to say.
I think he’s still off luckily for VAR but they’ve used the wrong line of defence quite clearly
That system is a joke. No one can tell me that the technology and angles they have access to gives them certainty that he’s offside.
He probably is, but it wasn’t given on the pitch and if that’s the best they can offer with var i don’t think it’s clear and obvious, with supporting evidence, to show it’s offside
He’s probably offside.
I also thought Nygren vs Aberdeen was well offside until we got an angle in line with the ball. Why could Premier Sports not have better angles at each side of the pitch?
He was offside, don’t need lines to see his leg.
Thought the same but concluded it’s still Scales
Arsene wenger has proposed an alteration to this rule where the whole body has to be offside rather than the opposite being the case…hope it goes thru
It’s probably not far off the right lines but we’ll never know with the angles and quality.
Absolutely no point in having VAR unless we have the full system and people to run it.
I think Scales was offside (albeit significantly tighter than what they presented) but they cannot continue to use angles like that to determine it.
You can’t look at that angle with the lines and say you have faith in the system and the men using it. Remember last season when they used a camera at the Celtic box to determine an offside at the opposite end of the park?
It gives you zero confidence in our refereeing standards and decision making. We’re not the richest league, but surely we have enough money to pap two extra cameras in line with the box whose sole purpose is to just look at the box for offsides.
The problem isn’t VAR, the problem is many people don’t understand how it works or what they are looking at.
How it works is, there are multiple cameras and they are all synced together. The point when the ball is struck is determined using the closest cameras at the best angles. The exact frame where there is no longer any contact with the ball is identified and all of the synced camera’s are locked to that point. An accurate model of the pitch and player positions is then built using all of the feeds and then the lines are drawn. Its insanely accurate.
This single still image presented to the viewer is not used to determine onside or offside and it makes perfect sense if you know what you are looking at.. this is an image taken at an angle with the var lines that were accurately determined superimposed upon it. The line is relative to Scales and the Rangers player furthest up the field. The fact that other players look more advanced than this at this angle in this picture is completely understandable, expected and immaterial to the decision. This is simply how the decision is eventually presented to people using the best live feed shot of the action.