I know that this post may not come at the right time since yesterday we lost against Juve. It is a friendly after all, we were really good at keeping possesion, but we couldn't simply break their lines. It was also kinda experimental since Nmecha and Brandt didn't start, Jobe was forced to play as a 10 etc. It let us with a bitter taste due to the fact it was Mats Hummels celebratory game and we all wished his last game would be a win. But, I think we looked alright and for sure other transfer will come in the next weeks, a center-back and a number 10 are vital to having a good season.
What I wanted to talk about is that I have seen many people here criticize Kehl, Ricken and Watzke for not being more ambitious, for not stating clearly that our goal is winning the title.
I will start with quoting Kovac, who remains skeptical about winning the championship but believes in winning the DFB-Pokal. In an interview with WELT AM SONNTAG, Kovac expressed doubts about securing the league title this season and set other priorities: "I can understand the dream. But, I have to be realistic. And realistically, we finished last season 25 points behind Bayern and 12 points behind Leverkusen. Our goal is to reduce that gap. Bayern averaged 2.47 points – we had 1.67. That's a huge difference. Of course, we wouldn't mind being in the title race. But at the moment, we are not a top favorite for the championship. A more realistic goal would be winning the DFB-Pokal – and that's a worthwhile One."
I really believe Kovac's take is realistic and healthy, since we have to take into account so many variables that build up to a title succes. Moreover, stating publicly that the club wants to win the title doesn't get us closer to winning it.
The main reason for making this post is beacuse I wanted to bring back to everybody's attention a certain period in our recent history. For that, let's turn back in time, in 2019. In the 2018/19 season we came very close to winning the title after 6 years when Bayern's position seemed completely untouchable. That season, we have made 76 points (according to number of points, it was our 3rd best Bundesliga season in history).
In the summer of 2019, it became clear that Borussia's main goal was to win the title as soon as possible. Even Watzke said publicly that our objective is to win the league. We went big on the transfer market, we signed Hummels + Hazard + Brandt + Schulz for more than 100 mil., then in winter we loaned Emre Can and signed Haaland. Did that get us closer to the title? NO
Bayern also went beserk and won every trophy that season under Flick, but let's not look at just that. Let's take a look at what was in our control: the number of points we made. In the 19/20 season, we made 69 points, after that, in the 20/21 season, we made 64 points and then in 21/22 we made 69 points.
So, after we publicly stated that our goal is winning the title and after going big on the market, we never got close again to our number of points that we made previously to that declaration and movement on the market.
Our goal every season should be UCL qualification and getting as far as possible in the Pokal and UCL because that enables us to get the money we need in order to compete season after season at a high level. If things click: coach, formation, players chemestry, lack of injuries, team spirit, luck etc., then we may win it. Many of our trophies, title runs, Pokal and UCL were not announced by anything.
Out of all the teams that reached the QF of the UCL this season, we were the ones from the smallest city, the only ones that don't operate on huge debt (besides Bayern). We are not having money pumped from American or Saudi investments funds, yet we are still there, competing every season.
Of course we need 2 more additions, but we already have a solid core of players that started to form back in 2022. We didn't lose any key player since Bellingham 2 years ago.We also have a good balance regarding experienced players and youngsters. And, maybe the most important thing, we got into next season after a positive result in the end of the previous one (we climbed from 11th to 4th and we managed to have good games against solid teams like Barcelona, Bayern and Leverkusen). The last 2 season we started bad due to the fact that our squad came after huge losses (league loss in 2023, UCL final loss in 2024) and that clearly destroyed our players morale (watch Schlotterbeck and Sabitzer interview regarding the UCL run and you will understand how devastated they were after that loss). Now our team starts the season with a far better morale than in the last seasons. I am more than sure that in the next few years, silverware will come back at Borsigplatz and we, as fans, will be happier and more relaxed (even on this sub).
The rant is over:))
by viba_1997
12 Comments
Is this Rant in the room with us?
To be honest, that’s exactly how I see it. Our goal can only be to qualify for the CL. Everything else is fanboy dreaming. I just want to add one thing. You are talking about the 100m summer transfer and the point gap to Bayern. 22/23 our top transfer was Haller 30m€ while Bayern just spent 20m€ on Tel as a backup during that time. These are the dimensions of how far away they are.
I think BL title should be aimed for at least. Last year was just the team trying to getting in the pit which lead to that gap. Aim for BL title would definitely mean cutting the point gap in itself. Let’s see how it goes. Looking forward to it.
Top 4 is a trophy for mos of this reddit fanbase.
Short-term I agree with the goal Kovac gave in the interview. We scored 57 and 63 points the last two seasons, compared to 71 and 69 the two years before that. The high 60s, low 70s is what the goal should be for the season, with qualifying for UCL as a minimum. That should also re-establish BVB as the clear #2 behind Bayern. It’s not going to be easy, because more clubs are in the UCL race than a few years before, so I would count that as a success.
Mid-term (the next 3-5 years) we should definitely aim for the Bundesliga title. That’s not fan-boy dreaming, but the ambition you should have as the second biggest club in Germany.
Don’t agree. You need to develop a mindset to fucking win every game you start. Whether the opponent is Bayern, Leipzig or Wolfsburg. You have to be sure you will win and act accordingly.
Stating that Cl is enough or the goal immediately leaves room for excuses. “Oh yeah we lost in (enter random club here) but we’re still in 4th, so all good” is just not good enough.
That’s what truly separates us from clubs like Bayern. Those mfs just go out and know they’ll able to win. No excuses.
In my opinion any of the top (at least) 5 should go into each match and know they’ll be able to win. Otherwise what’s the point.
And, spoiler alert, if you win enough games you’ll collect enough points and you’ll automatically compete for the title.
It’s not the two games against Bayern that fuck our season.
So yeah, our goal should be winning the title and nothing else. If in the end some other teams collects more points, so be it. If we went into each game with the mindset of winning that’s alright. Anything else is bs.
Talk about the title is kind of beside the point. The issue with the management is that they don’t set standards. And either don’t have any long term philosophy or are fundamentally dishonest in their communication.
They seem to mostly alternate between “this is good”, “give it some time” and “oh well what can you do?”. Case in point basically calling the market impossible after seemingly only looking at England all summer.
Or how apparently making top 4 on the last match day means there cant be major issues with the squad.
Goal must be Champions League. Everything else is a bonus.
I said in a different thread a some days age that a season with 70 points or more in the league, semi final or better in the cup and round of 8 or better in the UCL would be a 9/10 season considering where we are. Any kind of silverware in addition to that would be a 10.
Aiming for the Cup win is laudable and The most realistic. But with every elimination competition it only takes one bad game to drop out. So I won’t see a lack silverware as a failure this season.
I see some comments here like “our mindset should be winning every match” or “we need to win the title, not the pokal”
The last trophy won was in 2021, how do you want to go from a squad that didn’t win a trophy in 4 years to a team to win everything in one season. It s not possible.
Also, I don’t think Kovac tells his players “go have fun, it s not an important game, we dont need to win”. No, I think he prepares the squad as well as he can for every game, and try to win them. But be realistic, at the moment there are:
34 Bundesliga games
6 Pokal Games (every game possible)
15 UCL Games (every game possbile)
1 SuperCup game
56 games in total. So yeah, it s hard to prepare a team for that many games and also the players to be at their top level every game.
And yeah, Borussia is the second biggest club in Germany, but compare the squad values.
BVB: 405M euros
Bayern: 902M euros
They have more than double and you cant tell me that this is not important.
I think what Kovac wanted to say is that he will try to win the Cup as main goal, but if there will be an opportunity to win the UCL or BL he will take it.
You should have the whole image to understand how football works. Sure, there were teams that did it, won everything, but how many teams were in history to do this? 11 teams were able to win a treble and Barcelona and Bayern did it twice. Again compare also the financial possibilities and you would understand that it s not something likely to happen, but one can dream of course. But sometimes you need to be realistic
As a longterm fan who grew up with the Kinderriegel taking over Wörns etc i have really lost my connection to the club.
I don’t know what the Club wants to stand for anymore in recent years.
What is the philosophy?
I don’t mind if we have some bad seasons but it was much either to connect to the team and players when we had a vision.
Also i don’t see many players bleeding for the club anymore and i can’t even be mad at them, i am sure they also don’t know what the club wants from them.
I guess without Hummels comeback i d have lost touch even earlier!
Yes, i am a football romantic but as i also follow Arsenal since childhood i loved the risk to put Arteta in charge and give him 100% support for his vision! He changed the whole atmosphere there, the level, the youth etc.
But our board really feels like they don’t want longterm success even, just thinking about their own power the whole time.
It’s mad when you think about how BVB changed its face so often back in the days(good n bad)
I ultimately agree but I think a lot of people including myself are just frustrated, too many horrible decisions have been made in the past few years and it makes me and maybe others feel that the club is quite fragile and if we are in a state like our current where it looks like we have a chance with a decent squad and coach, we should try to reach for more success as apposed to consistency.
>I will start with quoting Kovac, who remains skeptical about winning the championship but believes in winning the DFB-Pokal.
Absolutely within reach given Leverkeusen payroll and Union Berlin tactics.