England slipped up in their European Championship qualifying with a 1-1 draw against Ukraine, increasing the criticism of Gareth Southgate’s tactics and selection.
But what’s the actual cause of his side’s underwhelming performances, and are they even underwhelming at all.
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41 Comments
No
Not having it
Using an example of conceding a goal to demonstrate some positive defensive shape, I spat my coffee out. ☕️
We have a number of players classed as elite. We have a manager so far below that level tactically. It's just as simple as that.
As a Boro fan, I love GS, by the way. However, if Pep was in charge of England, we'd win the Euros and perhaps the next World Cup.
I could get this England team out of a qualifying group by picking XI players, but GS has consistently come unstuck when playing teams at or slightly above our level.
Despite all of this, we are blessed with that much talent we may just well win the Euros anyway! 😅
I just don't understand why Southgate struggles to pick 11 that actually play in their favoured positions. For example:
Pickford
Walker | Tomori/Maguire | Stones | Shaw
Bellingham | Rice | Maddison
Saka | Kane | Foden
And then you can change a few players around… E.g. maybe Grealish instead of Foden, or Rashford. Maddison could be replaced by Foden and then Grealish or Rashford player on the left wing. But fundamentally that 11, or close to it, is quality and should be able to score goals against any team.
Ok, so Henderson hasn't done poorly… Yet. But why wait for it to happen in an important game? Maguire I understand a bit more, but again, he isn't playing. His match fitness and general sharpness will not be there… Tomori meanwhile is playing CL football for AC Milan! Give him a chance to get used to the pressure of playing for England before Euro 2024.
And Southgate's decision to take off both Bellingham and Maddison when we needed a goal, instead of taking off Henderson? It's even more baffling, and clearly a sign he doesn't have the tactical mind, or isn't brave enough, to make impactful subs. I would have dropped Henderson to the bench, moved Maddison into midfield and put Foden on the left.
Stones, Maguire and Pickford play well as a trio because they've been doing it so long, but not because Maguire is undroppable. He tends to play well for England, but there are many who would play better if given the chance.
Southgate is missing more and more chances to bed in a centre back with a higher skill level. Henderson is just doing what Rice does, and Rice doesn't need help, especially now with the experience he has.
Great video, does bring a bit of perspective to the situation. I’ve always agreed with what you said about Maguire for England, as long as he performs for us then there’s no reason to drop him. And your point about Henderson’s covering role makes sense. But it would be nice to see a bit of experimentation for the future with Colwill, Tomori etc, maybe see how Rice gets on in a single pivot with a more attacking 8. Then again, there’s an alternate universe where he tries these things and we lose 3-1 so I suppose those experiments are probably best to try once we’ve qualified and in friendlies
Great observations and insights but I wish we won all the time 😂
It's still possible to play a lot more exciting football even with the players England has. More intense football. JWP, Watkins, Madueke, Lamptey. You think teams will be happy to concede a lot of set pieces if JWP is out there taking them? There's lots of ways to play football that doesn't look like this drab garbage and still being defensively quite solid. Overall I do appreciate the point you're making, but there's ways to keep it simple enough for international players (who often play together for a long time to compensate for low training sessions) to play more enjoyable footy.
Instead of building the defence around maguire why not build it around stones? He should be playing the same position as at City stepping into midfield, that way you don’t need hendo. Shaw/Colwill can play the left sided centre back as they’ve both shown they can do.
This way you open yourself to getting Foden/Maddison into their best positions as an 8/10 where they play every week. Bellingham then still impacts the game in all areas.
I would love to see your criteria for progressive passes, Watch Maguire tonight, he will do nothing but pass the ball sideways and sit deep. Rarely if ever have I seen him achieve any kind of cutting through ball or creative pass forward. The guy is a liability, the Ukraine goal the other night he ran straight into Guehi whilst Zinchenko slotted it in.
You have got this so so perfectly right, Hitting the nail on the head, perfect explanation, Thank you. I just want to see Gareth Southgate do changes more active/reactive, & with more Pow!
Place this in context… Southgate has an incredible generation of talent available and yet:
Plays Harry Maguire
Does not play Trent despite playing wing backs
Does not play any width, ever
Plays 34 year old Henderson in a double pivot
And has Smith-Rowe, Rashford, TAA, Grealish and Foden sat on the bench.
Picking a load of inside forwards and number 10s alongside a sweeper who can't play football doesn't make a tournament-winning side it just leaves a massively-congested middle of the park
The whole setup favours centre backs, is it not plausible that even a championship centre back might perform well in this England side because it's so unadventurous.
How can you say wow maguire plays so well for England dispite his poor form at united but then say others aren't good enough, perhaps they will also excel.
God i hate it, get a transfer or get out the England squad
I thought I was the odd one out after reading the press comments and speaking to people at work about England after the Ukraine game. This video has made me feel a bit better about my opinions! I do rate Ukraine and thought Ukraine played well. I don't think England played bad at all we just didn't seem to make anything materialise. We'd still scored a abundance of goals in the games leading up to this one and from memory conceded just the one against Italy. We still weren't beat and some less experienced players got some valuable game time, we'll also still qualify! I really think the previous tournaments have heightened expectations unrealistically. Perhaps I'm just grateful for whatever I get after 29 years of being a Newcastle fan.
Fair points. We still need a new manager/ Pep part time would win it for us with this team.
England have a larger pool of amazing footballers to drawn on. Few other nations are like this. This group has been playing together for several years, and many are on the same club team. This is truly the golden generation. They should be winning most games and winning handedly.
Playing James Maddison out wide is such a waste, he's been amazing as an 8 for Spurs, dropping deep and building up play AND finishing attacks. He really isn't a winger
southgate has no idea
Fair point, the only exception is the Spain 2008 side that predominantly consist of Barcelona players 😅
I'm not an England fan and I'm happy to see them lose, but it genuinely annoys me some of the decisions that Southgate has made. Starting players with low performance, minimum minutes outside of international football, not utilizing someone like Rashford or Grealish from the start above Maddison on the wing. I've also got to say, Maguire has performed quite good for England, but in this match he looked off. Not to mention the part where he almost marked Guehi in the box.
Who tf is tuchameni?
For the love of Christ, the previous 4 games in this qualifying cycle finished as 7-0, 4-0, 2-0 and 2-1 wins. Including a win away in Italy down to 10 men. Ukraine managed to host a high profile home game with a ton of Ukrainians in the ground, it’s an outlier, it’s fine
“Toochameni” you can tell when someone doesn't watch football outside of the EPL
Yes I'm here after the Maguire error but only as it reminded me of thoughts I had after watching the video. Firstly, I Like Adam, on here even more than whatculture. He's thoughtful, rational and intelligent but this argument is so incredibly flawed. In fact its circular. Maguire and Henderson must play because they play well for Southgate. Southgate sticks to this system due to players. And the players must play because of the system. But, playing those players means not trying others. Not finding new ways to play etc. The idea that Maguire should be there for progressive passing is bizarre. There's other much better at it? But we can't know if that's replicated for England if they're nor being picked. Same goes for Henderson. And the "this is what dominating looks like". Is it? Is this what Spain lolled like when the dominated? Germany? Brazil? When they actually dominated, not now when France is closest to that but not nearly as dominant.
Love your videos. What's with the frame shot with you in a black hoodie at 2.15? Quite funny 🙂
U had some good points mate ! Well done ❤
Okay, so:
Harry Maguire – you have a younger and a whole lot better option by the name of Levi Colwill right there. You can't call up a guy who refuses to go to a different club and play football, not even due to mentality concerns that should create but also because he will not be matchfit at all which makes him more prone to mistakes – if that's even possible to be even more prone to errors than Harry already is – and injuries.
Jordan Henderson – his call-up actually makes way more sense than Maguire's because he at least plays football so he is matchfit. Of course, he should also be replaced and the appropriate name to replace him is James Word-Prowse who is tearing it up in the Prem right now and is a very similar kind of player to Henderson and can be trusted with the defensive responsibilities as well.
As for the 'dominant England' – Brazil 1958-1970, Germany 1972-1980 or more up-to-date Spain 2008-2012 is what domination in international football looks like. No pragmatism, no small pee-pee complex, no mates-rates. And, funny enough, Spain achieved success thanks to exactly what England has now – a ton of super talented players from their domestic league playing a coherent, expansive system that showed all of their best attributes. Southgate and his defensive approach is exactly what STOPS England from becoming dominant and winning trophies.
EDIT:
I honestly did not expect that bombshell right at the end:
1st of all the standards for this national team are so low, oh my god. Even in Poland when we got to the 1/4-final at EURO 2016, although we were super happy, it was also very disappointing because we already saw us getting to the final and maybe giving it a solid shot. You lot got to the final of the Euros with the best squad you've had in the 21st century and bottled it and are happy with it? The bar cannot get lower, I believe. That's Harry Maguire masterclass right there.
Name me one of those exciting and ambitious managers that England had lately. Name me some of those exciting attacking players from the last, let's say, 20 years. You have THE best squad in the last 20 years maybe with the exception of the central defence and left back both in terms of pure quality and the attacking prowess, creativity and technical ability but those players are held down by the uninspiring, boring, out of touch, clueless manager.
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day it's not my national team and in fact my national team has its own issues but god damn I am well and truelly baffled.
power to the Player 😂
Maquire has never had a good game against any decent international opposition. He's error prone. Errors for both goals England conceded.
Modern football needs CB who knows play with the ball. Mcguire looks play better with head than his feet…
Maguire's stats are totally misleading. 90% of the time England play against very inferior opposition. When they do come up against a decent team, Maguire gets found out.
The fact is he just isn't a very good ball player. He is not comfortable or capable on the ball. You just have to look at the last game against Scotland – that would not have been an own goal for any other international team in the world. He single handedly changed the whole game.
If your analysis is purely based on stats you should go and work for Todd Boehly.
Why is madison on the wing,
why is maguire a 5th choice cb for his club starting,
If your team can't beat a country that is busy fighting a russian military invasion, the manager should be fired immediately
Ah this is why Four Four Two has long been the bread and butter of football journalism. I don't think it quite excuses Southgate's choices, since he is in a system that he refuses to adapt or explore at the expense of stubborn faith. But it does shed more light on the thinking process.
I respect your unique perspective, but I disagree because you're missing the bigger picture here. Ultimately, England have an incredible depth of talent which would allow a manager to play a variety of systems. The issue is that Southgate is too conservative or afraid to play those systems and is relying on what worked previously too much. He's not bad, but he's not good either. Ultimately its just a wasted opportunity for England.
Is there a good reason maguire still plays? Hard to get around some questions about players without merit in the squad
I’m sorry but there are a lot of really good cbs that should be given a chance. Continuing to pick maguire is foolish
Lovely propaganda video
I absolutely do not understand the english sentiment towards Henderson..Maguire i get (how can you play him with the likes of Tomori on the bench?)..but Henderson was absolutely intergral to your european and wc campaigns..he does the basic things which enable your more creative/athletic types to go do their thing..he lets the likes of maddison,foden,bellingham,etc.,play off him..he's just a solid no.8,strong defensively,almost always plays simple but progressive passes,always occupying centrally,but having a knack for making that one run into the box which results in a goal..you don't have another player like him..and maybe now you have a case against him,with him choosing to go to saudi arabia instead of,say,maybe spain or italy..but you did the same thing to carrick..never recognizing him for the world class player that he was until it was too late…
Agreed that dominance at the international level is limited, but saying southgate is trying to jam square pegs into round holes is a bit silly. It’s true he has to work with what he is given, but if the system your using doesn’t bring the best of your top quality players, maybe it’s time to try a new system which southgate seems incapable of doing
You didn't mention the effect of encroaching parity. As globalisation affects sport, the rest of the world is getting better. At the same time, the traditional powers topped out decades ago.
Too many memes on Maguire spoiled his career
Sorry but in 1 game Dunk looked so much better and commanding then Maguire. You can't say the 3 of pickford, stones and maguire have to play because they look a unit….that's because he WON'T play anyone else to show the country he knows NOTHING!!!!